Pickering on Talks with Russians about Taliban

Terrorism, drugs top concerns for both countries, says
Pickering


The United States and Russia have agreed to intensify sanctions
against the Taliban regime in Afghanistan because of the Taliban's
support for international terrorism and drug trafficking, U.S.
Undersecretary of State Thomas Pickering said.


Speaking to reporters in Moscow October 18 after consultations with
Russian First Deputy Foreign Minister Vyacheslav Tribnukov, Pickering
said the United States and Russia share "a deep sense of common
understanding of the threat" posed by the Taliban.


Pickering said the U.S. and Russian government agreed on the need to
impose additional United Nations sanctions against the Taliban and to
strengthen existing sanctions.


The United States accuses the Taliban of running terrorist training
camps where tens of thousands of people have been prepared for
operations in Central Asia and beyond, Pickering said. He said
Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan have been beset by terrorist
activities. Pickering repeated the U.S. demand that the Taliban to
hand suspected terrorist Osama bin Laden over to U.S. authorities.


In addition to sponsoring terrorism, Pickering accused the Taliban of
opposing the formation of a broad-based government in Afghanistan,
violating human rights, especially those of women, and producing and
selling narcotics.


He said that the United States and Russia have agreed to implement a
United Nations-supported regional plan to counter illegal narcotics.


The undersecretary also said that he told the Russian government that
the United States "is the largest provider of humanitarian assistance
in Afghanistan" with over $100 million in aid given this year.


The United States and Russia rule out a military solution to
Afghanistan's problems, Pickering said. "We have concentrated our
efforts working together in the United Nations on a political
settlement," he said.


Pickering praised the Russian government for making useful
contributions to the Middle East peace process, but cautioned that
flights to Iraq that are not for humanitarian purposes and approved by
a U.N. sanctions committee should not be permitted.


Following is the unofficial transcript of the press conference,
provided by Federal News Service:


(begin transcript)



PRESS CONFERENCE WITH U.S. UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE THOMAS PICKERING



Moscow 

October 18, 2000



U.S. AMBASSADOR TO RUSSIA JAMES COLLINS: Let me welcome all of you
this afternoon. I have the pleasure to introduce Undersecretary
Pickering whom I think you do not need to have an introduction to
know. He was of course ambassador here from 1993 through much of 1996
and has been very much involved in many of the affairs of this country
in his current position back in Washington. He has been here as he
will tell you for consultations with Mr. Trubnikov of the Ministry of
Foreign Affairs on Afghanistan and issues associated with that. But I
would with great pleasure introduce him to you. Mike, and I think if
you want to set the ground rules.


STAFF: The ground rules are that we are all on the record. We have
about 30 minutes and Mr. Under Secretary Pickering will have a few
words to say and then will take questions.


MR. PICKERING: Thank you, Mike, and Jim, thank you very much for not
only letting me come back to Spaso House but for you kind
introduction. I am delighted to see all of you and as Jim said, I am
here principally to conduct conversations with our Russian friends and
particularly under the leadership of first deputy Foreign Minister
Vyacheslav Trubnikov, on questions touching Afghanistan and terrorism.


This small group was set up at the instruction of the two presidents
and with the work of the two foreign ministers, Secretary Albright and
Foreign Minister Ivanov. We had our first meetings in Washington at
the beginning of August and this was a meeting to follow on. We were
here in principle to work together to find ways to stem the threat to
the international community from the Taliban support for terrorist
activities and narcotics production. We worked very closely together,
examining the situation in and around Afghanistan which continues to
threaten regional and international security.


The main focus of our talks over the last two days was on imposing
additional United Nations sanctions in the Security Council against
the Taliban and strengthening those sanctions that are already in
effect in resolution 1267 which was passed about a year ago.


Both of us agreed to implement provisions of the Regional Action Plan
of the Counter-Narcotics Working Group which was adopted by 6+2
nations who are cooperating together in trying to find an answer to
peace in Afghanistan through the United Nations.


We have been able to continue our work to try to persuade the Taliban
to cease their support for terrorism and close terrorist training
camps in Afghanistan to comply with resolution 1267, to render Osama
bin Laden to justice, to commit themselves to the peaceful resolution
of the conflict in Afghanistan, to end their support for illegal
narcotics production and trafficking, to accept international
standards of human rights, including in particular with respect to the
status and treatment of women and girls. The US and Russia have
reached a wide range of agreement on these issues and we will continue
to work together both bilaterally and multilaterally to stem the
threats to the region and to the world community from the support of
the Taliban for terrorism and narcotics production in Afghanistan.


This meeting comes at a particularly important time because of course
our two countries have consulted and worked closely together on a wide
range of questions and recently both in the Balkans and in the Middle
East, and I was happy to find a receptive and warm and hospitable
reception back here in Moscow and interesting and stimulating
discussions on both sides with representatives from many departments
and agencies participating particularly on the discussions which I had
the honor to lead on our side.


Perhaps with that brief introduction I'll open now the floor to your
questions.


Q: (Off mike) -- Central Asia regarding Islamic terrorism and how dire
is the threat?


MR. PICKERING: We had a good opportunity to examine this in detail and
our Russian partners contributed their assessments. I think that you
would not be surprised if attention turned rapidly and immediately to
not only the continued fighting in Afghanistan and the deep concerns
which all of us share of the potential for spillover, but also of the
recent summer, I guess, activities would be inappropriate, the recent
summer attacks carried out in Uzbekistan and the neighboring states by
the IMU (Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan), an organization which has
just been found by the Secretary of State to be a foreign terrorist
organization which therefore severely restricts their ability to raise
money in the United States, to be present in the United States which
subjects them, if they do so, to criminal penalties.


We discussed this and the effect on the region of such activities and
particularly the sense that we had that it was Taliban support for
training camps in which tens of thousands have been trained and who
then later participate in terrorist activities both in Central Asia
and beyond, that deeply concerns us and this is the reason why in fact
we held our meetings, reviewed the situation and decided to work more
closely together to deal with this threat.


Q: Is there any connection that you have found so far between Osama
bin Laden and the attack on the US ship the other day?


MR. PICKERING: That's being conducted in an on-going investigation. We
were not focused in our discussions here. It was too recent an event
and there was too much uncertainty at the time we met about what is
going on there. So, I would quite correctly refer you to the spokesman
on the site for any further comment on that issue.


Q: The Russian news agency Novosti. Would you be so kind as to tell
me, did you discuss with the Russian partners the question of possible
contacts with the Taliban government?


MR. PICKERING: Yes, we did. We had a good discussions with our Russian
partners on both the contacts that the United States has with the
Taliban. I won't say the Taliban government because they are
recognized only by a tiny handful, one or two or three countries. But
I will say the Taliban and I described for our Russian partners the
discussion I had most recently within the last three weeks with the
so-called vice minister of the Taliban group and described for them
the fact that the United States agenda with the Taliban incorporates a
set of deep concerns in four principal areas. And you will not be
surprised because they were covered in my opening announcement.


First and foremost, terrorism and the sheltering of Osama bin Laden
and our request that he be rendered up to justice in accordance with
the United Nations resolution. Secondly, our deep concern about the
fact they do not seem to be open to participate in a peace process
which would seek to create a broad-based government for Afghanistan in
which all elements and all groups in Afghanistan and outside of
Afghanistan would have an opportunity to be represented.


Thirdly, the deep and serious concern we have about the illegal
narcotics production and trafficking in Afghanistan and the fact that
that contributes a great deal of funding to the Taliban and their war
machine inside Afghanistan. And finally, but not least, the deep
concern we have about human rights and especially, as we emphasize at
every turn, the treatment inside Afghanistan, very, very unacceptable
treatment of women and girls in their society in complete
contradiction to international standards.


On the Russian side, I believe, they expressed not only understanding,
but support and concern for the same sets of issues. They may have
their own way of describing it, and come here to speak for them, but I
thought we had two or three things in common and a deep sense of
common understanding of the threat. A deep sense of common
understanding of what it was on the Taliban side that we all felt was
totally out of keeping with the ideas and principles of the world
community and where it is going. And I think finally, a sense that we
could achieve common ground working together in the United Nations for
further measures, further sanctions to deal with the Taliban in light
of the fact that the Taliban has not responded in any positive way to
the sanctions and Resolution 1267, which were particularly targeted on
their leaders, as you know.


Cutting off all of their airline traffic, efforts to limit the travel
of their leaders internationally, and we don't believe, and I just
want to say both of us agree, that with respect to the Taliban the
focus is on their leadership, not the people of Afghanistan.


We made it clear to our Russian partners that we are still the largest
provider of humanitarian assistance in Afghanistan. This year over a
hundred million dollars, up from 70. So there has been an increase.
And we have a deep concern about the people of Afghanistan. I think we
share that, but we also share a deep set of concerns about the role,
the programs and the activities of the Taliban leadership inside
Afghanistan, and that is where we believe further additional
international pressure needs to be brought.


Q: President Putin has spoken a lot about the threat of the Taliban
actually coming over the border into Tajikistan and moving to Central
Asia. What is your realistic evaluation of the threat specifically to
Russia from that type of invasion?


MR. PICKERING: I think Russia is, of course, best equipped to make its
own judgments about the threat. But I believe we had a wide degree of
common understanding about both what was happening in Afghanistan,
where the military conflict is going, and the threat that was posed
either by the spill over of the military conflict or, more important,
this intensive training program in producing tens of thousands of
trained individuals who undertake terrorist actions and armed
intervention and that kind of thing in various parts of the world.


So we share that. That is the reason why we are meeting to try to deal
with that particular problem. Now I would say first and foremost we
both agree that in respect of the future of Afghanistan there is no
sense in our view that there is a military solution to that problem.
And we have concentrated our efforts working together in the United
Nations on the political settlement. But it is one of the many ways
that we seek to bring about in the end, if I can put it this way, to
the Taliban sponsorship of terrorism and the instability that comes
from the current situation of Afghanistan as it effects the region.
Tajikistan is just but one of the places where there has been impact.
I mentioned earlier Uzbekistan. Kyrgyzstan has also been affected.


Q: Congressional Quarterly. Undersecretary Holum was here this week as
well conducting talks on START-3. Obviously you were with the Taliban
issue but I presume you have been briefed on this. How have these arms
control talks been going? Is there any other progress on that or the
missile defense issue, ABM?


MR. PICKERING: Let me just say a few words and say that Under
Secretary Holum will speak best on this when you have a chance to talk
with him. But I understand that progress has continued to be made,
that talks are intensively engaged, that we are addressing all of the
issues, that there is much work still to be done.


Q: AP. If I understood it correctly, you discussed some of the bin
Laden activities with the Russians at length. Have you found common
ground assessing the threat posed by his movement? Was any possible
joint action to stem his activity discussed?


MR. PICKERING: Well, I think in the discussion of the threat we, in
particular, because we have felt to be primary victims, if I can put
it that way, our people and our installations, of Osama bin Laden. We
focussed a good bit of our time and attention in explaining to our
Russian partners how we assess the situation. I believe they widely
understood it, I believe, in fact, that they had their own assessments
which were parallel to ours with respect to the danger. We, of course,
understood his relationship to the East Africa bombings, the fact that
he is under indictment in the United States at the turn of the year.
In Jordan, in particular, new information was turned up about other
ongoing activities which groups closely affiliated with him intended
to undertake and attack tourists and other innocent individuals in
acts of terrorism.


So we all see this. And we all understand it. We also understand that
terrorism is a complex business, that not all is linked to everything,
that there are other movements and other activities that take
terrorism elsewhere, we have agreed at Russian request to look at the
possibility that the scope of the group might look at terrorism beyond
that that originates in Afghanistan. And I promise that the United
States will seriously consider and study those proposals and get back
to the Russian side on the possibility that the scope of the group
with respect to terrorism in other regions might be broadened.


However, for the moment we have focused on that originating in
Afghanistan. It has, unfortunately, as you know, both with Osama bin
Laden and others who were trained there a broader scope in
Afghanistan. We would be, I think, a lot happier if in fact it only
went on in Afghanistan. Not completely because the fate of the people
in Afghanistan is obviously of international concern. But
unfortunately, it does spread all over as does the narcotics
trafficking with which it is closely and in our view intimately
related. And we both agree on that assessment.


Osama bin Laden is a center of one large ramified, diverse network of
these activities. And this is the reason why the United States
continues to believe that the Taliban must quickly comply with
Resolution 1267 and deliver him to a place where he can receive a
trial.


Q: For those of us who have been based in Moscow for a long time, we
have heard for the last year regarding the Chechen war that the
Russians have ample evidence that either Chechens or Arab mercenaries
are some sort of fighters who have been trained in Afghanistan and are
now fighting Russian forces in Chechnya. My question to you is: have
you seen this evidence, do you have credible evidence either from the
Russians or from American intelligence sources that mercenaries
trained in Afghanistan are fighting in Chechnya?


MR. PICKERING: Well, first and foremost, obviously, I have to say from
the outset that once you mention intelligence sources, of course, I am
not permitted to comment. So let me put that on the side. And let me
just say that the focal point of our effort was terrorism in
Afghanistan. And so issues that related to Chechnya per se did not
come up.


Our view, I think, is well known and I just wanted to point out a few
sets of concerns that we have and a few sets of the issue. To begin
with, obviously, we support Russia's territorial integrity. We also
remain deeply concerned by the way in which the conflict has been
conducted. There, too, we don't believe there is a military solution
and we have told both sides of the depth of our concern about the
treatment of Russian citizens in Chechnya and the fact that we believe
that treatment should meet the same common standards as the treatment
of citizens in Russia all over the country. We have continued to
express our concern about terrorist incidents in Russia and talked to
Russians not in my working group but in other working groups about
that set of incidents. We did not have a discussion in particular
about the issue with the question you raised, and I would refer you to
Russian authorities for whatever information they may have to give you
for your own judgments on that question.


Q: Do you trust their assessment that there are mercenaries in
Chechnya?


MR. PICKERING: I have not heard their assessment first-hand. And so it
is difficult for me, much as I respect the medium of the press, on a
second-hand report to give you a judgment about that. I have seen many
of the reports, I have seen pictures of a gentleman whose name is
Hattab who apparently is not a native Chechen and apparently who is in
Chechnya. So, it is difficult for me to say that the reports seem to
be without foundation. At least in the case of that one individual.
Beyond that, I haven't got direct evidence, but I would refer you
again to Russian sources for whatever information they can give you
for your own ability to review and confirm those.


Q: Reuters. So, is it correct to say, then, that U.S. policy on the
Taliban is to work exclusively through the United Nations? And did you
reach some agreement with the Russians on that issue?


MR. PICKERING: No, I think that the United Nations is one very
important way. The Security Council represents the highest authority
in the United Nations system to deal with issues of peace and
security, and the Taliban, in our view, threatens peace and security
in its part of the world. And, therefore, the United Nations has
taken, through the Security Council, cognizance of that, accepted to
consider that issue, and passed a resolution almost a year ago of
sanctions against the Taliban leadership in particular.


But there are other ways, obviously, of dealing with them. We all have
frequent and widespread diplomatic contacts -- both bilaterally and
multilaterally -- to raise with other governments these kinds of
issues. The United Nations provides a forum in which we can concert,
and so it has been up until now our principal means of acting in these
areas, but it would be no secret to say that both we and the Russians
have recently had visits in Pakistan and talked to the Pakistanis
about the issues. The Russians have indicated they have been in touch
with other governments in the region: some, like Iran, that we are not
in dialogue with and some, such as the Central Asian states that we
both have spoken to about our concerns in the region.


The Indian prime minister recently visited the United States. The
Russian president recently visited India. I think it's safe for you to
conclude that these issues were also topics for conversation with the
Indians by both of us. So it gives you a sense of the ramified range
of activities we're undertaking to try to deal with this issue.


Q: Bloomberg News, Marta Sernic. I have a question that's related to
Yugoslavia. I don't know whether this issue was raised or not, but it
would be interesting to hear if there are some differences between the
way the US and Russia look at developments in the country,
specifically with relation to Montenegro and Kosovo. Thank you.


MR. PICKERING: It didn't come up in the talks that I had which were
narrowly and specifically focused on those issues. I look forward to
having some broader contacts here this afternoon in which I expect
that that question will come up.


In some of the conversations I've had on an informal basis up until
now I believe that it is safe to say there is a wide measure of common
understanding of the situation in the Balkans, and particularly in
Yugoslavia or Serbia- Montenegro, that both sides remain concerned
obviously about the fact that the electoral victory of Mr. Kostunica
is now being effectively translated into a government that can
function effectively; that indeed the issue of Montenegro and its
future relationship with Serbia is being discussed actively as it was
yesterday between Mr. Djukanovic and Mr. Kostunica; that we watched
that, I think, with a great deal of interest; that we look forward, as
we have over the past months, in comparing notes. And we believe, in
fact, that the changes that have taken place within the last month in
the region have offered new opportunities for us further to concert
our efforts and find common answers as partners in dealing with this
situation, which I believe affords a new opportunity for Russia, the
United States and Europe to work more closely together in that region
than they have been able to up until now.


So I consider these developments a bright spot, a welcome opportunity,
and an opening. And I believe, from what I have heard here, that this
is reciprocated as well on the Russian side.


Q: Elizabeth Palmer, CBS News. I wonder if I might focus on something
else as well. The trial of Edmond Pope, who is accused of espionage,
begins today in Moscow, and given that the trial is being held in
camera and that so far US consular officials are not being permitted
to even observe the trial, would you care to comment on the
administration's concerns that Mr. Pope will get a fair trial?


MR. PICKERING: I would say first and foremost let me repeat what is
uppermost in our minds at this moment: that Mr. Pope be released as
rapidly as possible to receive the kind of medical treatment that his
special form of cancer requires and that the process of releasing him
be as speedily accomplished as possible. This has remained uppermost
in our minds over all of these months, and I wouldn't comment on this
issue without beginning to give you that fundamental and basic
position of the United States.


Secondly, obviously, we have been concerned about the issue, because
we don't yet know what the charges are, and the trial is proceeding
behind closed doors, so it will be difficult for anybody to form a
judgment, if I could put it that way, outside the precincts of the
court and not admitted to process about what is actually going on. So
at this stage our concern about the trial process, about the lack of
information, even in past cases, both in Soviet courts and in Russian
courts, there has been in cases in which apparently the charges are
similar of espionage, a great deal more information provided in
advance about precisely what is being considered. And so this is
disturbing to us and obviously we are concerned. But the primary,
significant and most important issue for us is that because of this
particular health conditions, but also because we believe, in fact,
that he should be released, that he be released as rapidly as
possible.


Q: NTV. There were speculations in the Russian press that the recent
meeting between the Russian and U.S. authorities was about some kind
of power sharing in Afghanistan, that the U.S. deals exclusively with
Taliban and Russia exclusively with the Northern Alliance. Do these
speculations have any substance?


MR. PICKERING: No. None. I think that the common view that we arrived
at mostly with respect to our -- (inaudible) -- of what the Taliban
has been doing and our efforts to seek, to get those abhorrent actions
on their part changed, whether this is support for terrorism and Osama
bin Laden, or narcotics trafficking, or human rights violations, the
United States does not support any faction in Afghanistan, it supports
a solution to the problem through political means with the
establishment of a broad based government which will be representative
of all elements, all groups in and out of Afghanistan, of the
Afghanistan people.


And while that it is not my business to define the Russian policy. I
believe from our talks that we have a great deal of coherence both in
our assessment and in our objectives in Afghanistan, but I refer you
obviously to Russian spokesmen for their own confirmation of their
position on what they would like to see, but I believe, in fact, as I
say, as a result of my talks, we have a great deal of congruence in
that objective. So, it is not power sharing, it is not choosing of
sides, it isn't you take this guy, we'll take that guy, we are engaged
in a common effort and the word partnership, in my view, is a true
description of what we are attempting to do together here.


Q: Did you talk about flights to Iraq at all, the possibility that
Russian airlines might --


PICKERING: I always talk about flights to Iraq.



Q: And what did you say?



MR. PICKERING: Well, I think our position is very clear. That we
believe the resolutions of the Security Council do not permit flights
to Iraq which are not humanitarian and which are not approved by the
committee established by the Security Council to oversee the sanctions
against Iraq. I think that is straightforward and simple. We believe,
in fact, that countries have an obligation to let the Sanctions
Committee know and to receive their approval, or their non-objection,
however it is organized for a particular flight, and that the United
Nations has a duty and an obligation as to states sending aircraft to
Iraq to assure that they are truly humanitarian flights.


Q: And how did the Russians respond to that?



MR. PICKERING: Well, I haven't talked in detail about it yet, but I
look forward to doing so. And you know, they can tell you what their
views are, but I've told you mine.


Q: Associated Press. Did you talk at all about the agreements reached
yesterday in Sharm el-Sheikh? And perhaps -- (off-mike) -- Russia
might hold in it?


MR. PICKERING: Yes, we talked briefly and I plan to talk further and
as you know from what you have been seeing those agreements in
particular focus on three critical areas.


The first is obviously stopping the violence with the remarks and
statements which both leaders had made to return to the situation, if
I could put it this way, to the status quo before the violence
started. The second have to do with the work that President Clinton
will do along with the Secretary General of the United Nations in
establishing a commission that will do fact-finding with respect to
the outbreak of violence and more importantly, I hope, recommendations
as to how the parties can avoid this in the future. And the third, and
I was delighted to see this, is for the future. That is, to move the
peace process back into the work of the two parties on the basis of
resolutions 242 and 338 and the other subsequent agreements and I
believe that the parties are now looking forward to coming to
Washington in a couple of weeks to begin again what they left off when
violence so disastrously intruded on the situation.


I believe this has been a very tough discussion, a very tough
negotiation. Obviously, the first part is critical. We will have to
see whether over the next 24, 48 or 72 hours that could be made to
hold. We certainly hope so, but we don't underestimate the
difficulties in that particular part of the process as both the
Secretary and the President said yesterday in holding together.


Q: How do you comment on Russia not taking part in these negotiations
and do you think it is possible to stabilize the situation without
Russia taking part?


MR. PICKERING: I would like to say -- I've been waiting for this
question for some time, so, I am not surprised you asked it. I would
say this. First and foremost, Russia has been a partner in Madrid.
Secondly, Russia through the person of the Foreign Minister -- Foreign
Minister Ivanov has recently been in the area working too to calm the
situation along with many others, with the British Foreign Minister,
the French Foreign Minister and so on. And we believe that this has
had a happy and salutary effect. The parties when they agreed to get
together at Sharm el-Sheikh believed that they should have a minimum
number of participants consistent with their hope to find an agreement
to stop the violence. That has been their major focal point.


The United States has made it clear that it would have welcomed
Foreign Minister Ivanov had the parties and the others been able to
arrange for him to be there. Nevertheless, he was not there but we
believe through our continued contacts, and I hope in my own way to
make a contribution to that, we can continue to work closely together
on this very important part of the process. I would say there are
difficulties enough to go around in the Middle East for all of us to
work hard in sharing them. There are important things that we need to
do which in my view epitomize in the best sense the possibilities that
we are still partners together in the Middle East and need to work
closely together and I know in fact that within hours both the
President and the Secretary of State have attempted to be in close
contact with their Russian counterparts and I know that those talks
when they take place if they haven't yet already will once again
produce, I hope, a common understanding of how we can continue to
cooperate in the future in this very important area.


Q: During your visit here will you have a chance to talk to any
Russian officials about Slobodan Milosevic? The U.S. position is to
actually take him to The Hague and what is your understanding of the
Russian position on that issue?


MR. PICKERING: I certainly will have the chance. I haven't had the
opportunity to have what I would call a serious and informed
conversation about this issue. We remain committed, obviously, to our
United Nations obligations in the effort to set up the court and to
bring to justice all who have been indicted, and we hope to work
closely with Russia and other parties to achieve that objective. It's
an important objective, and we are working very closely as a result of
our conversation last weekend with President Kostunica as well in
attempting to deal with these very difficult problem.


There is, and there have been, a whole series of important questions
that have to be addressed, and this remains among them.


STAFF: Last question.



Q: I'm Beth Noble from CBS. I'd like to just follow up about Edmond
Pope.


MR. PICKERING: Yes.



Q: If he -- people here who are watching the trial find it -- think
it's very likely he'll be found guilty given that the deck is sort of
stacked against him in the court from the very beginning. If he is
found guilty, what will America do to try to get him released,
pardoned?


MR. PICKERING: All right. First, that's a hypothetical and a
hypothetical. So I'm not going to comment at all on that issue. Our
objective will remain unchanged: his earliest possible release for the
appropriate medical care and return to his family.


Q: But obviously President Clinton and Secretary Albright have already
been taking with their Russian counterparts about Edmond Pope's case.
What have they been saying?


MR. PICKERING: As long as he remains here, we will continue to say the
same thing: earliest possible release.


STAFF: Thank you. Thank you all very much.



(end transcript)



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