DATE= OCTOBER 18, 1997
TYPE=ON THE LINE
NUMBER=1-00575
TITLE=DEFUNDING INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM
EDITOR=OFFICE OF POLICY - 619-0037
CONTENT=
THEME: UP, HOLD UNDER AND FADE
ANNCR: ON THE LINE -- A DISCUSSION OF UNITED STATES
POLICIES AND CONTEMPORARY ISSUES. THIS WEEK,
"DEFUNDING INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM." HERE IS
YOUR HOST, ROBERT REILLY.
HOST: HELLO AND WELCOME TO ON THE LINE.
THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT HAS DESIGNATED THIRTY
EXTREMIST GROUPS AS TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS.
TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE FREEDOM IN AMERICA,
GROUPS SUCH AS HAMAS HAVE USED FRONT
ORGANIZATIONS TO RAISE MONEY IN THE UNITED
STATES. LAST YEAR, CONGRESS PASSED A LAW
DESIGNED TO PREVENT TERRORIST GROUPS FROM
RAISING FUNDS IN THE U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE
MADELEINE ALBRIGHT SAID, "OUR MESSAGE TO ANYONE
WHO COMES INTO OUR COUNTRY TO RAISE MONEY FOR A
TERRORIST ORGANIZATION IS, YOU RISK GOING TO
JAIL. AND OUR MESSAGE TO ANYONE WHO IS PART OF
A TERRORIST ORGANIZATION AND WHO WANTS TO ENTER
THE UNITED STATES IS, YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE."
JOINING ME TODAY TO DISCUSS U.S EFFORTS TO
DE-FUND INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM ARE TWO EXPERTS.
GORDON GREY IS DIRECTOR OF REGIONAL AFFAIRS FOR
THE STATE DEPARTMENT'S OFFICE OF
COUNTER-TERRORISM. AND HILLARY MANN IS AN
ASSOCIATE FELLOW AT THE WASHINGTON INSTITUTE FOR
NEAR EAST POLICY. WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
MR. GREY, LET ME BEGIN BY ASKING YOU WHAT THE
STATE DEPARTMENT AND THE U.S. GOVERNMENT HOPES
TO ACCOMPLISH BY ISSUING A LIST THAT DESIGNATES
THESE THIRTY GROUPS AS TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS?
GREY: WELL, THERE ARE THREE MAIN LEGAL CONSEQUENCES
THAT FLOW FROM THESE DESIGNATIONS. AND I WOULD
LIKE TO EMPHASIZE THAT IT IS THE WHOLE U.S.
GOVERNMENT THAT HAS MADE THIS DECISION. STATE
DEPARTMENT WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE
DEPARTMENTS OF JUSTICE AND TREASURY, THE F-B-I
AND WITH THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY AS WELL. THE
FIRST LEGAL CONSEQUENCE IS THAT MEMBERS OR
REPRESENTATIVES OF A FOREIGN TERRORIST
ORGANIZATION ARE INADMISSIBLE FOR VISAS TO COME
TO THE UNITED STATES. SECOND ASPECT OF THIS LAW,
THE SECOND LEGAL CONSEQUENCE, IS THAT PROVIDING
MATERIAL SUPPORT INCLUDING FUNDRAISING IS A
CRIMINAL OFFENSE. AND THE THIRD IS THAT THE
TREASURY DEPARTMENT'S OFFICE OF FOREIGN ASSETS
CONTROLS IS EMPOWERED TO REQUIRE FINANCIAL
INSTITUTIONS TO BLOCK ANY ASSETS THAT ARE
CONTROLLED BY A FOREIGN TERRORIST ORGANIZATION.
THAT'S THE LEGAL SIDE OF THE EQUATION, IF YOU
WILL, AND THOSE ARE VERY IMPORTANT CONSEQUENCES.
AT THE SAME TIME I THINK IT SENDS A VERY
POWERFUL SIGNAL TO THE REST OF THE WORLD THAT
THE UNITED STATES IS VERY SERIOUS ABOUT
COMBATING TERRORISM AND THAT WE ARE WILLING TO
IMPLEMENT OUR POLICY PRESCRIPTIONS. WE ARE NOT
JUST GOING TO TELL OTHER COUNTRIES WHAT TO DO.
WE ARE GOING TO TAKE CONCRETE MEASURES
OURSELVES.
HOST: HILLARY MANN, WAS THIS THE RIGHT STEP FOR THE
U.S. GOVERNMENT TO TAKE?
MANN: THIS WAS THE RIGHT STEP AND THIS WAS MANDATED BY
CONGRESS IN APRIL OF 1996. IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT
AND IN RESPONSE TO SEVERAL REPORTS OF CONCERN
THAT WITHIN THE UNITED STATES LEADERS OF SUCH
GROUPS AS HAMAS, ISLAMIC JIHAD WERE RAISING
MONEY RIGHT HERE IN THE U.S. IN ORDER TO FUND
THE TERRORIST OPERATIONS ABROAD THAT KILLED
HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE INCLUDING AMERICANS. SO THAT
WAS VERY IMPORTANT, IN THAT RESPECT, IN TERMS OF
FUNDRAISING, AND ALSO IN TERMS OF, AS MR. GREY
HAS POINTED OUT, VISA ISSUANCES. IT WAS VERY
IMPORTANT, I THINK, AT THIS TIME IN PARTICULAR,
TO SEND A MESSAGE THAT, NOT ONLY THE LAW WAS
BEFORE THAT IF YOU HAD ACTUALLY PARTICIPATED IN
A TERRORIST ACT YOU COULDN'T COME TO THE US.
THIS BROADENS THIS, SO THAT IF YOU ARE A MEMBER
OF ONE OF THESE GROUPS, YOU CAN'T COME HERE AND
SPEW YOUR VITRIOL AND RHETORIC IN ORDER TO
INCITE ANY SORT OF TERRORISM ABROAD THAT COULD
BE AGAINST U.S. CITIZENS.
HOST: WHAT ELSE HAS THIS LEGISLATION CHANGED? HILLARY
MANN JUST MENTIONED THE VISA THING. IT EXPANDS
IT IF YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THIS ORGANIZATION, YOU
CAN'T COME INTO THE UNITED STATES. ON THE
FUNDRAISING ASPECTS HAVE THERE BEEN ANY
PROHIBITIONS PRIOR TO THIS LEGISLATION THAT
PREVENTED A TERRORIST GROUP FROM RAISING MONEY
HERE.
GREY: IN JANUARY OF 1995, THE PRESIDENT ISSUED AN
EXECUTIVE ORDER, UNDER THE INTERNATIONAL
EMERGENCY EXECUTIVE POWERS ACT, WHICH BLOCKED
FINANCIAL TRANSACTIONS FOR TWELVE GROUPS WHICH
SPECIFICALLY EITHER USED VIOLENCE OR THREATENED
TO USE VIOLENCE TO DISRUPT THE PEACE PROCESS.
THAT'S AN ANNUAL EXECUTIVE ORDER THAT'S BEEN
RENEWED EACH YEAR. SO, FOR TWELVE OF THE GROUPS
THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE DESIGNATED ON
OCTOBER 8TH, THERE WERE SOME RESTRICTIONS
ALREADY IN PLACE. BUT THIS IS A STATUTE THAT
WAS ENACTED ON APRIL 24TH, 1996, AND IT'S GOT
BROADER CONSEQUENCES.
HOST: AND THOSE TWELVE GROUPS HAVE BEEN FOLDED IN.
THEY'RE PART OF OF THE THIRTY THAT ARE ON THE
LIST.
GREY: EXACTLY.
HOST: HOW BIG A PROBLEM WAS SUPPORT FROM WITHIN THE
UNITED STATES FOR SOME OF THESE TERRORIST
ORGANIZATIONS TO BEGIN WITH? HOW SUCCESSFUL
WERE THEY IN FINDING FUNDS?
MANN: IT'S HARD TO MEASURE IN TERMS OF EXACTLY HOW
SUCCESSFUL THEY WERE. THERE WAS ABOUT
SEVEN-HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS' WORTH OF FUNDS
FROM TERRORIST GROUPS FROZEN HERE AS A RESULT OF
THE JANUARY 1995 EXECUTIVE ORDER.
HOST: AFFECTING THOSE TWELVE GROUPS.
MANN: I THINK THE EXACT FIGURE WAS SEVEN-HUNDRED
THIRTY-THREE THOUSAND DOLLARS THAT WAS FROZEN
HERE. SO IN TERMS OF A DOLLAR AMOUNT, WE'RE
TALKING ALMOST A MILLION DOLLARS. BUT WHAT IT
GAVE TO TERRORIST GROUPS WAS IT GAVE THEM THE
POSSIBILITY OF USING A COUNTRY LIKE THE UNITED
STATES WITH OUR FREEDOMS AND OUR DEMOCRACY AND
OUR OPENNESS TO COME HERE AND TO USE NOT ONLY
OUR BANKING SYSTEM, OUR FREEDOM OF SPEECH
RIGHTS, THAT WHOLE PANOPLY OF A FORUM THAT THEY
WOULDN'T HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO USE ABROAD. IT
WAS A HUGE CONCERN HERE AND WE FEARED IT WOULD
GROW WITHOUT SOME SORT OF EFFORT TO COUNTERACT
IT.
HOST: WHY THESE THIRTY GROUPS? HOW WAS THE
DETERMINATION MADE WHICH ORGANIZATION WAS A
TERRORIST ORGANIZATION, AND CERTAINLY THERE ARE
MORE THAN THIRTY TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS IN THE
WORLD, AND WHY DO WE HAVE THIRTY?
GREY: THE LEGISLATION THAT WAS ENACTED HAS THREE
SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS. ONE IS THAT ANY
DESIGNATED ORGANIZATION SHOULD BE A FOREIGN
ORGANIZATION. THE SECOND IS THAT THIS
ORGANIZATION ENGAGES IN TERRORIST ACTIVITY. SO
FOR GROUPS THAT HAVE PERHAPS BEEN ACTIVE BUT ARE
NOW DEFUNCT, IN SOME CASES WE LOOKED AT THEM AND
DIDN'T FEEL THAT THEY WERE CURRENTLY ENGAGING IN
TERRORIST ACTIVITY. AND THE THIRD ASPECT OF THE
LAW REQUIRES A DESIGNATED ORGANIZATION SHOULD
EITHER THREATEN THE NATIONAL SECURITY OF THE
UNITED STATES OR THE SECURITY OF U.S. NATIONALS.
AND THE CONGRESS DEFINED NATIONAL SECURITY OF
THE UNITED STATES IN BROAD TERMS, TALKING ABOUT
ECONOMIC AND FOREIGN POLICY ASPECTS OF OUR
INTERNATIONAL POLICY. AND OBVIOUSLY THREATS TO
UNITED STATES NATIONALS MEANS IF SOMEONE GETS
INJURED OR KILLED IN A TERRORIST ACTIVITY. SO
THERE ARE MANY ORGANIZATIONS THAT WE CONSIDERED
THAT PERHAPS MET TWO OUT OF THE THREE CRITERIA,
BUT DIDN'T MEET ALL THREE OF THE CRITERIA THAT
WERE SPELLED OUT IN THE LAW.
HOST: BECAUSE I KNOW ONE CONCERN, OR QUESTION RAISED
WHEN THIS LIST WAS JUST ISSUED IS WHERE IS THE
I-R-A? WHY ISN'T THE IRISH REPUBLICAN ARMY ON
SINCE IN YOUR OWN PUBLICATION ISSUED BY YOUR
OFFICE ON "PATTERNS OF GLOBAL TERRORISM," YOU
HAVE PICTURES OF TERRORIST ACTS CONDUCTED BY THE
I-R-A. YET THEY'RE NOT LISTED AMONG THE THIRTY.
WHY IS THAT?
GREY: AS THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR PUBLIC
AFFAIRS SAID ON OCTOBER 8TH WHEN HE WAS ASKED
THIS QUESTION, THERE IS A VERY STRONG BODY OF
EVIDENCE THAT DOCUMENTS HISTORIC I-R-A
INVOLVEMENT IN ACTS OF TERRORISM. AT THE SAME
TIME, IN MAKING HER DECISION ON WHICH GROUPS TO
DESIGNATE, THE SECRETARY TOOK NOTE OF THE JULY
19TH UNEQUIVOCAL CEASE-FIRE BY THE I-R-A AND THE
BRITISH ACCEPTANCE OF THAT CEASE-FIRE AS GENUINE
IN WORD AND DEED. NOT ONLY THAT, BUT THE
INCLUSION OF SINN FEIN IN THE ALL-PARTY TALKS IN
BELFAST -- BASED ON THAT THE SECRETARY DECIDED
TO CONTINUE TO REVIEW THE QUESTION. AGAIN, AS
THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY SAID, ANY RESUMPTION OF
VIOLENCE BY THE I-R-A WOULD HAVE AN IMMEDIATE
AND DIRECT IMPACT ON THAT REVIEW. AND THE STATE
DEPARTMENT WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THE I-R-A'S
ACTIVITIES VERY CLOSELY.
HOST: DO YOU THINK THAT WAS THE RIGHT DECISION,
HILLARY MANN?
MANN: I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE THIS IS A LIST
THAT IS NOT STATIC. IT'S NOT WRITTEN IN STONE.
THESE THIRTY GROUPS ARE NOT THE BE ALL, END ALL
OF WHO CONSTITUTES TERRORISM FOR NOW AND INTO
THE NEXT CENTURY. SO I THINK IT WAS APPROPRIATE
FOR THE STATE DEPARTMENT TO MAKE CERTAIN
DECISIONS THAT EVEN THOUGH A GROUP HAD A
HISTORICAL PATTERN AND THERE WAS SERIOUS
EVIDENCE OF TERRORISM, IF THERE HAS BEEN A
CEASE-FIRE AS WITH THE I-R-A AND IT'S ACCEPTED
BY THE BRITISH THAT PERHAPS NOT TO INCLUDE THEM
NOW WAS THE RIGHT THING -- THOUGH I DO THINK THE
STATE DEPARTMENT WILL FOLLOW IT CONTINUOUSLY AND
IF THE SITUATION CHANGES HOPEFULLY WILL PUT THEM
BACK ON THE LIST.
HOST: WERE YOU DISAPPOINTED THAT ANY OTHER GROUPS WERE
NOT INCLUDED ON THIS LIST AT THIS TIME?
MANN: I THINK A SIMILAR ARGUMENT WAS MADE VIS-AVIS THE
P-L-O [PALESTINE LIBERATION ORGANIZATION], WHICH
ALSO HAS A VERY SERIOUS AND SIGNIFICANT
HISTORICAL BODY OF EVIDENCE THAT THEY HAVE
PARTICIPATED IN TERRORISM. BUT AFTER THE
HISTORIC HANDSHAKE ON THE WHITE HOUSE LAWN WHERE
THE P-L-O BASICALLY RECONCILED WITH THE
GOVERNMENT OF ISRAEL, THAT CHANGED THE
SITUATION, CHANGED THE DYNAMIC OF THE SITUATION.
THOUGH, WITH THE FLUIDITY OF THE SITUATION IN
THE MIDDLE EAST I THINK THAT WILL ALSO NEED TO
HAVE THE FOCUSED ATTENTION OF THE STATE
DEPARTMENT AND SHOULD BE REASSESSED, AND THAT
NOBODY SHOULD BE SITTING BACK AND RELAXING
BECAUSE THEIR NAME ISN'T ON THE LIST NOW THAT
THEY WON'T BE ADDED LATER.
HOST: I THINK ONE REASON GROUPS WERE SO SUCCESSFUL IN
RAISING FUNDS IS BECAUSE THEY HAD FRONT GROUPS
OR THEY HAD POLITICAL WINGS. YOU MENTIONED SINN
FEIN, THE POLITICAL WING OF THE I-R-A. WHERE YOU
TAKE SUCH A GROUP AS HAMAS, WHICH HAS CHARITABLE
ORGANIZATIONS, RUNS SCHOOLS, AND SO FORTH, AND
CAN MAKE APPEALS BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOU'RE
HELPING CHILDREN AND SO FORTH. DOES THIS NEW
LEGISLATION PREVENT CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE SOCIAL
AND POLITICAL WINGS OF ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE
DESIGNATED AS TERRORISTS?
GREY: YES, IT DOES. IT MAKES IT ILLEGAL TO PROVIDE
MATERIAL SUPPORT TO ANY DESIGNATED FOREIGN
TERRORIST ORGANIZATION. THE ONLY TWO EXCEPTIONS
IN THE LAW ARE MEDICINE AND RELIGIOUS MATERIALS.
BUT I'D LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT THERE ARE MANY
LEGITIMATE CHARITIES OUT THERE IN THE PRIVATE
SECTOR THAT HELP, THAT PROVIDE SOCIAL BENEFITS
ALL OVER THE WORLD. AND IF PEOPLE WANT TO MAKE
SURE THAT THEIR CONTRIBUTIONS GO TO HELP PEOPLE
IN NEED, AS OPPOSED TO HELPING TERRORISTS, THERE
ARE AMPLE OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THAT.
HOST: THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT YOUR WORK IN THE
OFFICE OF COUNTERTERRORISM OVER THE YEARS IS
THAT YOU HAVE NOT ONLY DOCUMENTED TERRORIST ACTS
VERY CAREFULLY, BUT YOU HAVE DESIGNATED STATE
SPONSORS OF TERRORISM, OF WHICH, I BELIEVE,
THERE ARE SEVEN TODAY.
GREY: THAT'S RIGHT.
HOST: WHAT I WANTED TO ASK YOU WAS WHAT IS THE
RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THESE STATE SPONSORS OF
TERRORISM AND THESE THIRTY TERRORIST
ORGANIZATIONS?
GREY: JUST AS BACKGROUND, JUST TO SPECIFY, THERE ARE
TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT STATUTES. THERE ARE TWO
DIFFERENT PROCESSES. BUT THAT BEING SAID, THE
SECRETARY OF STATE HAS DESIGNATED SEVEN
COUNTRIES AS STATE SPONSORS OF TERRORISM. THOSE
SEVEN COUNTRIES ARE IRAN, IRAQ, LIBYA, NORTH
KOREA, SUDAN, SYRIA, AND CUBA. AND, IN MANY
CASES, THESE ORGANIZATIONS PROVIDE DIRECT
SUPPORT FOR SOME OF THE FOREIGN TERRORIST
ORGANIZATIONS THAT THE SECRETARY OF STATE
DESIGNATED. PERHAPS A PRIME EXAMPLE OF A STATE
SPONSOR IS IRAN, WHICH VERY ACTIVELY FUNDS
HEZBOLLAH AND SOME OF THE OTHER PALESTINIAN
REJECTIONIST GROUP. IT' NOT JUST A QUESTION OF
PROVIDING FUNDS, IT'S ALSO A QUESTION OF
PROVIDING ARMS, TRAINING, ECT.
HOST: NOW, I DID NOTICE IN THE INTRODUCTION OF THIS
LIST A MEMBER OF THIS ADMINISTRATION MADE THE
STATEMENT THAT THIS LEGISLATION AND THE
ENFORCEMENT OF IT IS ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT
BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME
LESSENING IN THE STATE SPONSOR OF TERRORISM
SUPPORT FOR GROUPS LIKE THIS. IS THAT THE CASE?
MANN: I WOULDN'T USE THE WORD "LESSENING" OF
SUPPORT. I THINK THAT TERRORIST GROUPS IN THE
NINETIES HAVE BECOME MUCH MORE SOPHISTICATED
AND THAT THEY HAVE NOT CHOSEN TO RELY ON A
PARTICULAR STATE AS THE ONE-HUNDRED PERCENT
SOURCE OF THEIR SUPPORT. THEY HAVE FOUND THAT
THEY NEED MORE ROOM TO MANEUVER. THAT THERE
ARE MORE INDEPENDENT FINANCIERS, LIKE ONE OF
THE MOST NOTORIOUS IS USAMA BIN LADIN, WHO IS
BASED IN AFGHANISTAN, A SAUDI NATIONAL. AND
THAT THERE ARE OTHER WAYS FOR THEM TO GET
THEIR FINANCIAL AND ALSO TRAINING KINDS OF
SUPPORT. AND THAT THEY DON'T NEED TO BE AND
SHOULDN'T BE RELYING ON A PARTICULAR STATE.
BUT I WOULDN'T NECESSARILY SAY THERE HAS BEEN
A LESSENING. I THINK THERE HAS BEEN A
SOPHISTICATION, MORE, IN TERMS OF THE GROUPS
AND THEY HAVE CHOSEN TO WIDEN THEIR BASE OF
SUPPORT.
GREY: I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. I'D ALSO POINT OUT THAT
A VERY TROUBLING PHENOMENON THAT WE ARE SEEING
IN THE WORLD TODAY IS THAT STATE SPONSORS AND
COHERENT GROUPS, IF YOU WILL, ARE NO LONGER THE
SOLE PRACTITIONERS OF TERRORISM TODAY. YOU
MENTIONED USAM BIN LADIN AND THAT'S A PRIME
EXAMPLE, I THINK, OF A LOOSE KNIT GROUP OF
PEOPLE WHO SUPPORT TERRORISM. OFTENTIMES THEY
FORGED A FRIENDSHIP TOGETHER IN THE RESISTANCE
AGAINST THE SOVIETS IN THE EIGHTIES. AND THESE
GROUPS ARE VERY DIFFICULT TO TRACK BECAUSE THEY
DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE STRONG LINKS WITH EITHER
STATE SPONSORS OF TERRORISM OR WITH A SPECIFIC
GROUP.
HOST: I WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT IF THIS IS THE CASE AND
FOR REASONS OF DIVERSIFYING SOURCES OF SUPPORT
THEY HAVE TO RAISE MONEY PRIVATELY IN VARIOUS
COUNTRIES, THAT'S ITS ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT
THAT, NOT JUST OF THE UNITED STATES, BUT THAT
OUR ALLIES HAVE MEASURES SUCH AS THIS TO STOP
THESE GROUPS FROM RAISING FUNDS IN THEIR
COUNTRY. ARE THERE SUCH LAWS IN OTHER COUNTRIES
OR ARE WE ENGAGED IN ANY EFFORT TO ENCOURAGE
THEM TO . . .
GREY: I THINK THE UNITED STATES IS REALLY IN THE
FOREFRONT OF THIS SPECIFIC LEGAL BATTLE, TO TRY
AND LIMIT THE ABILITY OF TERRORISTS AND
TERRORIST ORGANIZATIONS TO RAISE FUNDS. BUT THAT
BEING SAID, WE HAVE MADE, IN OUR BILATERAL AND
MULTILATERAL CONSULTATIONS WITH OTHER COUNTRIES,
WE HAVE MADE A POINT OF EMPHASIZING THE NEED FOR
STRICTER NATIONAL LEGISLATION. WE'VE DONE THIS
BOTH PRIVATELY, AS I MENTIONED, IN OUR
DIPLOMATIC EXCHANGES, BUT IT'S ALSO A GOAL THAT
HAS BEEN ENDORSED BY THE COUNTRIES OF THE EIGHT
[INDUSTRIALIZED DEMOCRACIES AND RUSSIA]. SO I
THINK THERE'S POTENTIAL FOR SOME ACTION THERE.
MANN: I'D LIKE TO COMMENT ON THAT. IN 1996, AFTER THE
WAVE OF SUICIDE BOMBINGS IN THE SPRING OF '96 IN
ISRAEL, COUNTRIES FROM ALL OVER THE MIDDLE EAST,
INCLUDING ISRAEL, ARAB COUNTRIES, TURKEY,
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, JAPAN, THE UNITED STATES,
CAME TOGETHER AND VOWED THAT THEY WOULD WORK
PRECISELY ON THIS QUESTION OF COMING TOGETHER
AND LOOKING AT WAYS THAT THEY COULD FORMULATE
LAWS AND TAKE A MORE GLOBAL EFFORT. I THINK,
WHILE WE HAVE SEEN SOME BILATERAL MOVEMENT THAT
HAS BEEN VERY POSITIVE, PARTICULARLY WHERE THE
U.S. GOVERNMENT IS CONCERNED BY SOME BILATERAL
WORK THERE, THERE REALLY HAS BEEN A DROPPING OF
THE BALL. THAT THE COUNTRIES, PARTICULARLY IN
THE MIDDLE EAST, HAVE DECIDED NOT TO COME
TOGETHER, IN CONTRAST TO THEIR WORDS THAT THEY
WOULD AFTER THAT SUMMIT IN THE SPRING OF 1996.
SO, INSTEAD OF HAVING A LOT OF THE ARAB STATES
AND ISRAEL AND TURKEY WORKING WITH THE U.S. AND
THE G-7, WE HAVEN'T SEEN THAT. AND I THINK
THAT'S ONE OF THE MORE UNFORTUNATE HAPPENINGS IN
THE MIDDLE EAST IS THAT THAT EUPHORIA THAT THERE
IS A SOLUTION DOWN THE ROAD HAS REALLY
DISAPPEARED.
HOST: WHAT HAS THE REACTION BEEN TO THE PUBLICATION OF
THIS LIST SO FAR, FROM OTHER COUNTRIES AND ALSO
FROM THESE GROUPS THEMSELVES?
GREY: THE REACTION HAS BEEN PRETTY PREDICTABLE. MANY
OF THE DESIGNATED ORGANIZATIONS AND, I'M
THINKING OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD, OF HAMAS AND
HEZBOLLAH, HAVE DENOUNCED IT, SAYING IT'S
UNFAIR, NOT WARRANTED, ETC. CONVERSELY, SOME OF
THE GOVERNMENTS OF COUNTRIES THAT ARE AFFECTED
BY TERRORIST ACTIVITY, FOR EXAMPLE, SRI LANKA,
HAVE WELCOMED THE DESIGNATIONS AND HAVE
EXPRESSED THEIR HOPE THAT OTHER COUNTRIES WILL
FOLLOW SUIT AND WILL ENACT STRICTER NATIONAL
LEGISLATION.
MANN: I AGREE WITH THAT. THERE HAS BEEN ANGER FROM
SOME OF THE GROUPS. LIKE I WAS READING A REPORT
THAT HEZBOLLAH REACTED VERY ANGRILY AT BEING
DESIGNATED ON THE LIST. BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, I
THINK IT HAS BEEN CITED AS ENORMOUS HELP TO SOME
OF THE COUNTRIES LIKE ISRAEL AND TURKEY AND SRI
LANKA. THAT THIS IS EVIDENCE THAT THEY ARE NOT
THE ONLY ONES THAT RECOGNIZE THE THREAT. THAT
THE U.S. GOVERNMENT STANDS BEHIND THEM IN THEIR
FIGHT AGAINST TERRORISM.
HOST: THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M AFRAID THAT'S ALL THE
TIME WE HAVE THIS WEEK. I'D LIKE TO THANK OUR
GUESTS -- HILLARY MANN, OF THE WASHINGTON
INSTITUTE FOR NEAR EAST POLICY, AND GORDON GREY,
DIRECTOR OF REGIONAL AFFAIRS OF THE OFFICE OF
COUNTER-TERRORSIM AT THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT
-- FOR JOINING ME TO DISCUSS DE-FUNDING
INTERNATIONAL TERRORISM. THIS IS ROBERT REILLY
FOR ON THE LINE.
17-Oct-97 4:16 PM EDT (2016 UTC)
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Source: Voice of America
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